DX-100 or Apache?

[Brian Burns]

Hello All,

I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?

Cheers,

Brian Ex: W5BRO, K6UCD

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Brian Burns
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?

Well, the Apache will send SSB, which is a good feature to have, whereas
the DX-100 won't. On the other hand, the DX-100 is much simpler, as a result.

But I would pick whichever of the two is factory-wired. If they were both
built as kits, I'd pick the one that has the best-looking solder joints.
--scott

[Richard Knoppow]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Brian Burns
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and
may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath
Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two,
the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you
think?

Well, the Apache will send SSB, which is a good feature to
have, whereas
the DX-100 won't. On the other hand, the DX-100 is much
simpler, as a result.
But I would pick whichever of the two is factory-wired.
If they were both
built as kits, I'd pick the one that has the best-looking
solder joints.
--scott

Good advice but if the rig is primarily for AM I would
check the manuals to see how its generated. The DX-100 is
plate modulated but most SSB rigs do AM by either injecting
carrier on one sideband or with controlled carrier or some
other scheme that will work with a linear amplifier.

[Richard Knoppow]

Disregard my post. The Apache does have plate modulation,
I was confusing it with another transmitter.

[Michael Black]

Post by Richard Knoppow
Disregard my post. The Apache does have plate modulation,
I was confusing it with another transmitter.

But it was a valid point to check. Most SSB transmitters used low level
modulation for AM, so the Apache then becomes a relatively uncommon item,
an SSB rig that does plate modulation for AM. That tends to make it a
better choice, since it does SSB too.

Michael VE2BVW

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Michael Black

Post by Richard Knoppow
Disregard my post. The Apache does have plate modulation,
I was confusing it with another transmitter.

But it was a valid point to check. Most SSB transmitters used low level
modulation for AM, so the Apache then becomes a relatively uncommon item,
an SSB rig that does plate modulation for AM. That tends to make it a
better choice, since it does SSB too.

Let me guess: this approach gives you higher output power on AM since the
final can be operated class C, but it doubles the weight of the transmitter
with that huge modulation transformer?
--scott

[Lawrence Statton]

Post by Scott Dorsey
Let me guess: this approach gives you higher output power on AM since the
final can be operated class C, but it doubles the weight of the transmitter
with that huge modulation transformer?
--scott

So, you're saying "win-win!"?

--
XE1/NK1G

[n***@nonospam.org]

The Apache by itself does not have SSB capability. For that, you also
need the SB-10 Sideband Adapter. I had both but sold them years ago.

John

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Brian Burns
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?

Well, the Apache will send SSB, which is a good feature to have, whereas
the DX-100 won't. On the other hand, the DX-100 is much simpler, as a result.
But I would pick whichever of the two is factory-wired. If they were both
built as kits, I'd pick the one that has the best-looking solder joints.
--scott

[Roger]

The Apache doesn't cover 160m.

73, Roger

Post by Brian Burns
Hello All,
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?
Cheers,
Brian Ex: W5BRO, K6UCD

[dan/danl]

On Wed, 1 May 2013 10:54:24 -0700 (PDT), Brian Burns

Post by Brian Burns
Hello All,
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?
Cheers,
Brian Ex: W5BRO, K6UCD

The B&W 5100B is better than both except it does not have 160. B&W's
sound great on AM and work fine on CW too.

Dan
N9JBF

[Brian Burns]

Hello All,

Thanks for all the quick replies and good advice! I should know in a few days about the availability of the rigs.

The B&W 5100 looks like a great rig, but I don't recall ever seeing one for sale. Were there only a few made? Or does everybody want to keep theirs?

Cheers,

Brian

[dan/danl]

On Wed, 1 May 2013 17:33:26 -0700 (PDT), Brian Burns

Post by Brian Burns
Hello All,
Thanks for all the quick replies and good advice! I should know in a few days about the availability of the rigs.
The B&W 5100 looks like a great rig, but I don't recall ever seeing one for sale. Were there only a few made? Or does everybody want to keep theirs?
Cheers,
Brian

I think it's a combination of few made and the owners don't want to
get rid of them. They have great audio. I have had several and was
always happy with performance. Also like the low pass filter that was
built in. What price range are you looking at? My email addy is
***@gmail without the NO, if you would rather not say online.

N9JBF
Dan

[dan/danl]

On Wed, 1 May 2013 10:54:24 -0700 (PDT), Brian Burns

Post by Brian Burns
Hello All,
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?
Cheers,
Brian Ex: W5BRO, K6UCD

Brian Burns, what is your current callsign?

[Roger]

Another possible choice is the Johnson Viking I and II. Both 100 watt
rigs that cover 160m but require an external VFO.

73, Roger

Post by Brian Burns
Hello All,
I'm looking for an AM/CW rig in the 100 watt class, and may have a choice between a Heath DX-100 and a Heath Apache. In looking at the specs I could find on the two, the Apache looks like the better choice. What do you think?
Cheers,
Brian Ex: W5BRO, K6UCD

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Roger
Another possible choice is the Johnson Viking I and II. Both 100 watt
rigs that cover 160m but require an external VFO.

There are literally hundreds of different transmitters out there that will
fit the bill, and to be honest a lot of them are much better made than the
Heathkits which always seemed kind of marginal to me.

Everybody from Hallicrafters and Globe King on up to Collins made something
like that.

I have to say, though, that the Vikings are really hard to beat. They are
steady as a rock, the power supply is seriously overdesigned, and they are
well-cooled. There are hundreds of small shortwave broadcasters in South
America using the things with the key down 24 hours a day with no rest, and
they just run and run. Audio quality is superb. You can add a modern
synthesized VFO or the original Johnson VFO (which is pretty stable) or
a crystal.
--scott

[Richard Knoppow]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Roger
Another possible choice is the Johnson Viking I and II.
Both 100 watt
rigs that cover 160m but require an external VFO.

There are literally hundreds of different transmitters out
there that will
fit the bill, and to be honest a lot of them are much
better made than the
Heathkits which always seemed kind of marginal to me.
Everybody from Hallicrafters and Globe King on up to
Collins made something
like that.
I have to say, though, that the Vikings are really hard to
beat. They are
steady as a rock, the power supply is seriously
overdesigned, and they are
well-cooled. There are hundreds of small shortwave
broadcasters in South
America using the things with the key down 24 hours a day
with no rest, and
they just run and run. Audio quality is superb. You can
add a modern
synthesized VFO or the original Johnson VFO (which is
pretty stable) or
a crystal.
--scott

The complaint about some of the Johnson transmitters is
mainly from people who want hi-fi AM broadcast quality.
Most of them have clippers built-in and filtering for the
clipper and to tailor the frequency response for best
intelligibility. This IMO is actually a plus. Without a
clipper or some other form of amplitude limiting the average
modulation level for speech must be quite low. One other
problem evidently is that if too much clipping is used its
hard on the modulation transformer. Valiants are reported to
have this problem more than the 500. In any case it doesn't
take much clipping to increase average modulation
significantly without excessive distortion. Not too many AM
rigs had clippers in them, Collins did in the 30K and KW-1
but not the 32A series.



--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
***@ix.netcom.com

[Brian Burns]

Hello All,

Well it looks like the Viking II wins by default. Two have become available, for very reasonable prices, and they can cover the WARC bands as well as 160m.

As for audio modifications to improve fidelity--which AM'ers seem to want these days--Electric Radio magazine has a series of 3 articles describing a couple of levels of modification. June, July, and August 1998, and they have been used to good effect by no less than one of our favorite highly critical curmudgeons, who shall remain nameless (;->)...

Electrical Radio back issues are available directly from the publisher post haste, and for boatanchor lovers a subscription is just about mandatory!

Someone asked about my call sign. I was very active back in the early 1950's as W5BRO in south Texas, and K6UCD in Redwood City, Calif.

Thanks very much for all the responses--much appreciated!

Cheers,

Brian Burns

See my website: www.lessonsinlutherie.com

[Scott Dorsey]

As for audio modifications to improve fidelity--which AM'ers seem to want t=
hese days--Electric Radio magazine has a series of 3 articles describing a =
couple of levels of modification. June, July, and August 1998, and they hav=
e been used to good effect by no less than one of our favorite highly criti=
cal curmudgeons, who shall remain nameless (;->)...

Let me warn you against doing this. Not because it will devalue the radio
(which it might, but if you keep the parts you or someone else can always
undo it). Not because it sounds bad, because it sounds pretty good.

If you have an unmodified Viking, it sounds like a Viking on the air, and
people will stop and say, "Hey, I can tell you're on a Viking, it sounds
great!" If you open it up, it will just sound like every other wideband
radio out there.

And yes, the wider bandwidth means poorer copy under marginal conditions and
adjacent channel interference under crowded conditions. Those may not
bother you because most folks aren't going to be running AM under either
of those extremes anyway.

But the Viking is just a great-sounding radio with a distinct sound and
it seems a shame to lose that.
--scott

[j***@gmail.com]

Having had both a Johnson Viking 2 and a Heath Apache and even a DX 100 that never worked, In my opinion the Apache was the most solidly built. For a rig with a pair of 6146es The Apache was the heaviest and seemed to just have the best quality! And I love Johnson too. Also If you're really into understanding the different classes of amplifier the SSB adapter takes the buffer output and feeds it thru a genuine phasing type SSB modulator operating at final frequency and feeds SSB exitation back to the 6146s operating in class AB, about 12 watts worth of drive. I have fed its output directly into a dipole on 40M and workied Denver from LA. You could use THEAPACHE as a Linear as well. Its a rather unique and very stable rig. JIM Temporarily expired. BB Soon.

[Rich Greenberg]

Post by j***@gmail.com
Having had both a Johnson Viking 2 and a Heath Apache and even a DX
100 that never worked, In my opinion the Apache was the most solidly
built. For a rig with a pair of 6146es The Apache was the heaviest and
seemed to just have the best quality! And I love Johnson too. Also If
you're really into understanding the different classes of amplifier the
SSB adapter takes the buffer output and feeds it thru a genuine phasing
type SSB modulator operating at final frequency and feeds SSB exitation
back to the 6146s operating in class AB, about 12 watts worth of drive.
I have fed its output directly into a dipole on 40M and workied Denver
from LA. You could use THEAPACHE as a Linear as well. Its a rather
unique and very stable rig. JIM Temporarily expired. BB Soon.

I used to have a Viking 2, and one of its advantages over other rigs of
that time was that given the roller inductor, it could be used well
outside of the (then) ham bands. This means you can use it on the newer
ham bands. At the time I had it, the newer bands did not yet exist, but
a few of the MARS frequencies I operated on were well outside of the
(then) ham bands.

[j***@gmail.com]

Oops. De ***@gOOGLmail.com If U don't want the Apache, Ill take it!

[Michael Black]

OOps indeed.

You are replying a message from late April or early May this year, not
that long ago, but for many of us, the original messages are long gone.

And since you haven't quoted what you are replying to, who's to know what
you are talking about?

I went through that thread at google, and nobody was offering any rig. It
was a discussion (this newsgroup is supposed to be about discussion) of
various rigs of that era.

So you're replied to a message without quoting, and so it's really hard to
tell exactly which one you are replying to, and there was no offer of a
rig in the thread.

If you wanted to buy a rig, then find a proper buy and sell venue, and ask
away.

Michael VE2BVW

[j***@gmail.com]

To reply to the VE that replied to me I do not know if I am quoting or not. The Question that was posed last may was asking opinions on which would be the better choice of a 100 watt or so 6146 rig, not an offer to buy or sell I was just offering my own experience es. Yes the thread is dated, but so is the equipment. So am I for that matter. The last time I posted to a newsgroup was in 1996 using a 386 and a 2400 baud hayes modem.not thru google & not thru the WWW. I appreciate any help and advice and I apologize,this is not the right place for Instruction. 73, JIM

[Scott Dorsey]

To reply to the VE that replied to me I do not know if I am quoting or not.=
The Question that was posed last may was asking opinions on which would be=
the better choice of a 100 watt or so 6146 rig, not an offer to buy or sel=
l I was just offering my own experience es. Yes the thread is dated, but so=
is the equipment. So am I for that matter. The last time I posted to a new=
sgroup was in 1996 using a 386 and a 2400 baud hayes modem.not thru google =
& not thru the WWW. I appreciate any help and advice and I apologize,this =
is not the right place for Instruction. 73, JIM

I agree that the 6146 is a hell of a rugged and reliable output tube, but
I suggest that Google Groups is a wasteland ith a horrible user interface.

You might consider getting an old-style newsreader... it is MUCH more
pleasant than fighting with the Google UI and dealing with the Google spam.
--scott

[j***@gmail.com]

I don't know if I am quoting or not but referring back to the Heath Apache (E.F. Johnson Valiant and Viking 500 also could use a SSB adapter) The Valiant had 3 6146'es The Apache had two like the Viking 2. I am trying to remember the difference tuning for class AB 2 I believe because on voice peaks I recall just barely drawing a couple ma of grid current, a resting plate current of maybe 60 ma. To tune for SSB you would unbalance the carrier null and peak the various stages including the driver stage in the adapter and try to get a little grid current on the finals. The Plate Had a shallower and broader dip than in Class C and when that was close you could peak all the other stages by max plate current although I think there was an rf out meter as well. The regular class C Am/cw tuning was 6 mils grid current and 120-150 Plate (actually plate and screen) no resting current in class C obviously. The 500 had a "tune " position I don't recall but the Apache may have also. JIM